I believe the first of your proposals is sufficient to resolve the specific subject of this issue, which is to add a sustainability principle or value in the Vision, and link to the TAG Ethical Web Principle of Sustainability accordingly.
In particular, PROPOSED:
* Add "The Web must be an environmentally sustainable platform" as a fifth item in the "Vision for the World-Wide Web" section, and link the phrase “environmentally sustainable platform” to https://www.w3.org/TR/ethical-web-principles/#sustainable
If the Vision Task Force RESOLVES on this proposal, I am happy to create a PR for the edit accordingly.
For the remaining points https://github.com/michaelchampion raised of adding specific text for “energy consumed by web infrastructure” and crafting new text for the "We will do this by" section, I’d like to do that as subsequent proposals and edits, presuming the task force resolves on the above granular proposal, if that‘s ok with https://github.com/michaelchampion.
I’m ok with keeping this issue open for that, or (preferably) closing this issue per the title being resolved, and opening new issues for considering creating "how to" text for sustainability.
Since it is now past the end of 2022, and no further async comments were made on this issue, I am PROPOSING as promised more specifically to resolve this issue:
In addition, since those are only two of the four items in the “Vision for the World-Wide Web” section, and it would read more consistently if all four items were linked to respective TAG EWP points, I PROPOSE to make these two additional changes in the same edit:
While we may want to consider linking other TAG EWP points in other parts of the document, for the purposes of resolving this issue in a discrete manner, I believe it is sufficient and correct to incrementally make this set of four edits as a net improvement (and close out an old issue), while allowing other issues to be filed for additional discrete improvements.
If the Vision Task Force RESOLVES on these proposals, I am happy to create a PR for the edits accordingly.
… generalize a little, for example by grouping this for instance with phishing as well. Both problems seem to be somewhat similar in that they take advantage of the web's broad reach, as well as its general (but imperfect) trustworthiness to show deceptive and harmful content to vast amounts of unsuspecting viewers, some of whom will fall for the trick and cause themselves harm in the process.
… malvertising is a harm, but I believe it should come in the "how" section - in fact, I'm not clear how we would directly be addressing malvertising. The most I'd be comfortable with here is adding the suggestion of "deceptive practices" after misinformation, but I still don't think that's an improvement.
🌱 I have long been a fan of @Foursquare.com and @Swarmapp.com, having created many venues, posted many tips, and (checks profile) over 45,000 checkins. I recently joined @happycow.net and before I start posting new vegan (friendly) venues or reviews there, I really need to figure out my own personal site venue pages (including URL design) and review posts design and authoring workflow.
I’m pretty sure I can and should post h-review posts as a variant of articles (with usual h-entry markup) with an explicit article name, since most review destinations request a title (name) for the review (e.g. HappyCow, TripAdvisor), and for others with only review text (e.g. Google Maps), I can include the name at the start.
Different review destinations have different text requirements (minimum and/or maximum lengths), and I’ll take time to document those first.
It’s still quite new, but the thing that makes Breakfast & Coffee innovative and unique is that it encourages you to post your venue (e.g. cafe) description or review on your own site with a meaningful slug, link to the home page of "breakfastand. coffee" and then send a Webmention to indicate that you’d like to syndicate your venue or review into Breakfast & Coffee, like into an aggregator.
Update 2024-12-10: Breakfast & Coffee was shut down 2024-03-14 as part of spring cleaning. In my opinion the idea is still a good one with potential!
Before I get to that point however, I feel there’s quite a few challenges in publishing a “decent” restaurant / cafe venue page, because there really is a dearth of good examples of doing so with simple semantic HTML + CSS. You really don’t need JS to post info about a restaurant.
Setting aside the economic / intermediation challenges of "delivery apps" for now, people really want a few simple things from a restaurant site / page that could all be marked up with simple semantic HTML (thus resulting in good web search rankings) and styled in a quickly readable and mobile-friendly way.
* hours open (perhaps kitchen hours if different) * location (address that links to a map UI or map embed w/o cookies/tracking) * nearest bus/tram/rail stop * payment restrictions (e.g. if only cash, or only credit) or options if you prefer * contact info (including a note about catering if that’s an option) * links to social media profiles * links to restaurant review sites/aggregator pages (e.g. venue permalink on Google Maps, TripAdvisor, Foursquare, Swarm, HappyCow) * menu with item name, description, price, optional-thumbnail, and dietary/allergy notations
No you really don’t need the full mess of made-up things at schema-org.
The community at OpenStreetMap has done A LOT (most? nearly all?) of the work figuring out the ways to express the above types of information, e.g.:
Yet has anyone actually seen a simple semantic HTML page that publishes this kind of information?
I’ve web searched many search terms and phrases and found nothing good.
Stylistically dated templates for sale. Examples with numerous unnecessary scripts (no your typical user does not care about your clever animated 3D-carousel of pretty photos, certainly not waiting for a megabyte of framework scripts for it). Something built on Bootstrap, unnecessary for today’s mobile-friendly HTML+CSS.
Unless I find an existing solution soon, I’m going to create something from scratch with h-card (since a restaurant is an organization / venue) and add semantic HTML & class names for various fields, re-using from OpenStreetMap Keys whenever possible.
That leaves the URL design, where to publish my restaurant pages on my own site, and rather than rethink it, I will likely go with what I decided in my Whistle short URL design¹ many years ago, which is /v/ at the top level of my site, followed by a slug of my short name for the venue. This way I can play with static HTML pages there, with a shared style sheet in that same directory, without impacting anything else on my site.
I have some other thoughts around iconography for various diet preferences / allergen warnings for menu items that I’ve tried (or considered), though perhaps I’ll leave those for another post.
Or maybe I’ll braindump them now, however incomplete, to see if they resonate or anyone has better suggestions (restaurants and menus really have no standard for these)
Edit: already updated lists & descriptions based on feedback:
Individual icons/emoji: 🌱 — plant-based (no animal meat or meat broth/oils whatsover) +🌾 — has gluten +🥜 — has nuts +🍫 — has chocolate +🌶 — is spicy +🍯 — has honey +🧈 — has butter +🥛 — has milk, cream, or yogurt +🧀 — has cheese +🥚 — has egg
When present in a menu item (with no other food-related icons) 🌱 = vegan & gluten-free 🌱🌾 = vegan with gluten 🌱🥜 = vegan with nuts 🌱🍫 = vegan with chocolate 🌱🌶 = vegan and spicy 🌱🍯 = vegetarian with honey 🌱🧈 = vegetarian with butter 🌱🥛 = vegetarian with milk, cream, or yogurt 🌱🧀 = vegetarian with cheese 🌱🥚 = vegetarian with egg
with additional combinations as necessary.
For example:
A breakfast sandwich at Devil’s Teeth Bakery²: * Regular Breakfast Sandwich (no bacon!) $10.00 🌱🌾🧈🧀🥚
Or a chocolate croissant at Arsicault³: * Chocolate Croissant $5.75 🌱🌾🧈🍫
Arizmendi⁵ mint chocolate cookie: * Mint Chocolate Chip Cookie $2.75 🌱🌾
Non-vegetarian items would omit the plant 🌱 icon/emoji, but could still include allergen icons.
If you are posting restaurants (or any other venues) to your personal site, please add a few of their permalinks to the IndieWeb Examples here: https://indieweb.org/venue#Indieweb_Examples
iOS/iPadOS 16.4 (released 2023-03-27) have APIs for third-party browsers to support an “Add to Home Screen” menu item / share option like the same feature in Mobile Safari. Several iOS browsers have already shipped with support including Microsoft Edge for iOS, according to:
https://ios.gadgethacks.com/how-to/these-browsers-let-you-add-web-apps-and-bookmarks-your-iphones-home-screen-0385351/. Firefox for iOS & iPadOS should similarly support "Add to Home Screen", preferably as a menu item in the existing menu shown after choosing "Share" from the main ≡ menu in the bottom right corner.
Chrome on iOS does not yet (as of version 112) have an "Add to Home Screen" feature. I would expect it to be implemented soon however, as it’s a path to installable web apps which Chrome on Android and desktop already support:
MDN: Installing and uninstalling web apps: Add to home screen.
This feature is both useful for users and helps incremental user interface parity with Safari and Edge on iOS (and likely soon Chrome).
In addition, adding a web app to the home screen is a necessary step towards implementing the user interaction aspects of Web Push API and Notifications API support for web apps launched in Firefox. These two APIs were recently added to WebKit, also in iOS 16.4:
2023-02-16 Web Push for Web Apps on iOS and iPadOS
@spreadmastodon@mastodon.social it is one of the more amazing examples of emergent distributed alignment that I have seen. There is so much overlap across efforts, principles¹, and goals that it makes sense that we are finding ways of making things seamlessly work together at the edges.
I also see a common desire for enabling more user-owned use of and creating for the web, independent of big corporate ownership (or control), and without any reliance or need for surveillance capitalism.
@maegul@hachyderm.io@torb@octodon.social#BlueSky is a fascinating experiment to watch, and if there’s one thing we’ve learned from all the work on decentralized/federated social web systems over the past 13+ years (certainly since the first Federated Social Web Summit¹), there’s LOTS of room for and benefits to many folks working on solving many hard problems in parallel, even if with totally different approaches, which can learn from each other.
We learned this lesson in the #W3C Social Web Working Group².
Also a key reason the #IndieWeb community adopted a core principle of Plurality³.
I have a lot of sympathy for "so many non-techies bounce off Mastodon because it’s just too technically difficult for them", it’s one of the reasons I send most folks directly to https://micro.blog/ — it supports following / #federating with #Mastodon, and it supports core IndieWeb W3C standards like Webmention and Micropub.
Regarding what portability requires, I for one disagree that account or post portability needs "signed data repositories and DIDs". I believe that cooperative server-to-server portability can be achieved without it, and frankly, if you‘re wanting to design for uncooperative servers, what expectation can you have that they’ll support any standards or interop whatsoever?
Beyond Mastodon-to-Mastodon account migration, we already have Mastodon-to-BridgyFed (IndieWeb) and Mastodon - to - Micro.blog, and I expect we’ll see that grow to include all directions of all combinations thereof.
I am also optimistic that the “fediverse” will continue evolving various solutions that put users first in different ways, because there are users with different needs.
There’s certainly a current #fediverse hierarchy that puts a lot of power (and burden of responsibility) in the hands of ”server/instance” admins — “feudalverse” was a running joke for a while, reflecting a #federation of instance admin feudal lords and their user serfs.
Ironically, the more that account+posts migration/portability is supported, the more incentive there will be for harmonious and respectful relationships between instance admins and users, so I only see this situation improving in the future.
Long reply summarized: I think the folks innovating at BlueSky are charting interesting waters, the Mastodon development community continues show through improvements that they prioritize users and their identity & data ownership, and the IndieWeb community continues to support & play with those and many other solutions, building bridges⁴ between⁵ them⁶ to interconnect all the things.
@VincentTunru@fosstodon.org how can an account boost without broadcasting? Isn’t that built into how boosts work and what they mean? And yes, otherwise a new account boosting/reposting all the old posts would probably annoy all the followers who were migrated.
From a user experience perspective, this also seems odd and a bit misleading, even if only viewed on someone’s profile page. Boosts/reposts usually imply someone promoting someone else’s posts. Self-boosting from a new account feels a bit like spam / sockpuppetry, while boosting/reposting from the same account is at least transparent about what you are doing.
One of the pretty neat innovations from #Mastodon has been actual, functional, and fairly reliable (from all accounts I’ve seen) distributed system account migration, with the notable exception of post migration, which has additional challenges worth exploring.
To be clear, as far as I know, no other blogging (or chat) software, system, or even protocol comes close to achieving the level of functionality described in Mastodon’s documentation:
In short, moving: * all your profile information * moving all your followers & followings, transparently * redirecting your old account to your new one
More at that link. From the docs, it’s clear that quite a bit of thought & consideration went into the design & implementation.
Once I had setup #BridgyFed to #federate posts from my own site¹, I myself made use of the this Mastodon feature to migrate from my try-it-out @t@xoxo.zone account to my #IndieWeb@tantek.com (move destination handled by BridgyFed).
For me the migration experience was 100%, because I had not posted anything @t@xoxo.zone.
The challenge of post migration is not unique to Mastodon, though I believe it goes beyond “simple” export & import support, which is still a good place to start.
Mastodon has two forms of posts “export” currently: * RSS feeds, which will get you some number of recent posts, by adding ".rss" to the end of any Mastodon profile URL, e.g. https://indieweb.social/@tchambers.rss * Activity Streams 2.0 JSON, per https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moving/#export (note: it currently says “ActivityPub JSON format”, but there is no such thing, #ActivityPub uses the #ActivityStreams 2.0 JSON format and I’ve filed a PR² to fix this in the docs)
Lots of software & services import RSS, e.g. #WordPress.
As far as I know, nothing (not even Mastodon itself) actually supports importing Activity Streams 2.0.
There is a more complete format (with specification!) for exporting & importing blog content:
Blog Archive Format has the very nice features of: * portable HTML feed (h-feed) and JSON Feed * photos and other media * locally browsable post archive
Naturally, https://micro.blog/ supports both exporting & importing Blog Archive Format.
There’s an interesting opportunity here for an open source converter * from Activity Streams 2.0 * to Blog Archive Format
Such a library would make an excellent drop-in addition to any #ActivityPub implementation, allowing both export of posts, and also a browsable archive format, so you could visually double check when importing to another service that these were the old posts you were looking for.
This would be a good first step, using an open standard, towards Mastodon itself supporting post migration³.
Ideally, similar to account migration, the old posts server should also at least: * redirect old permalinks to the new permalinks * redirect any replies being delivered by ActivityPub to the new location * provide #Webmention discovery forwarding from the old URLs to the new URLs (e.g. using HTTP LINK headers) for some amount of time.
Want to add support for Blog Archive Format or got questions or feedback?
In short: using my own #IndieWeb blog and blogging software, which has no length limit.
A bit longer:
I make my posts by writing them in @barebones.com’s excellent BBEdit (@bbedit@mastodon.social) text editor, scp them to my blog, which does all sorts of automatic linking (including #hashtags), embedding, generating of archives, streams, feeds, sequential navigation, etc.
I was very happy to see that he also clearly communicated several #IndieWeb principles¹, practices, goals, and reasons why². Like this quote:
“But the advice you’ll hear from most people in this space is this: own your own domain. Don’t be john@/mastodon.social or anna@/facebook.com. Have a space that is yours, that belongs to you, a username and identity that can’t disappear just because a company goes out of business or sells to a megalomaniac.”
and this:
“It’s [your own domain is] your YouTube channel name and your TikTok username and your Instagram handle and your phone number and your Twitter @, all in one name.”
“If you solve identity with domain names, it makes things easier because it fits the way the web has been for 20 years,”
Pierce also noted:
“you might soon be able to turn your personal website into your entire social identity online”
Already can.
I replied to Pierce’s post³ about his article noting this⁴, from #federating directly from my website for the past ~6 months⁵, to over a decade of using it as my social identity with the POSSE method⁶ with various #socialMedia silos.
It’s important enough that I’ll repeat part of Pierce’s quote at the top:
“Have a space that is yours, that belongs to you, a username and identity that can’t disappear just because a company goes out of business or sells to a megalomaniac.”
As you pointed out, the “WordPress plug-in for ActivityPub” enables this today for people who use WordPress for their site.
One minor correction. You said:
“… you might soon be able to turn your personal website into your entire social identity online”
Always have been.
About six months ago I setup my personal website https://tantek.com/ as my #fediverse address @tantek.com¹. No need for a separate Mastodon account on someone else’s instance.²
This transmission is coming to you³ … from my personal website.
For 13+ years I’ve been using my site as my social identity⁴, using POSSE (before we called it that) to syndicate & distribute my posts to Twitter*, eventually to Facebook*, Flickr, GitHub, and now #federating directly with #ActivityPub supporting servers & services.
*Until they (Facebook, Twitter) dropped or disabled API access, and I haven't posted there since.
As you said:
“It’s [your own domain is] your YouTube channel name and your TikTok username and your Instagram handle and your phone number and your Twitter @, all in one name”
10 years ago today the first #federated#IndieWeb comment thread was published and collected peer-to-peer IndieWeb replies across websites without any intermediary, silo or otherwise¹.
2013-04-19 @eschnou.com posted a brief note on his personal site with #atMentions of a few domains (putting an '@' sign immediately before a domain name to indicate an explicit cross-web @-mention), which itself was also a first²
When @aaronpk.com was notified and replied from his site within minutes³, it became the first peer-to-peer federated IndieWeb comment thread, at the time using h-entry and Pingback. I blogged about it a few days later⁴.
Unfortunately Laurent Eschnou’s original post is no longer up, and we only have the Internet Archive copy. However most of the IndieWeb reply posts are still up including Barnaby’s: https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1334/
The oldest still working federated post and comment thread was second overall, unsurprisingly from @aaronparecki.com⁵, a whole 40 days after Laurent’s first.
Feeding (so to speak) two discovery birds with one stonefruit¹.
Your personal website can be your fediverse address², each providing seamless discovery for the other.
As web developers we should be building & developing our personal sites to exemplify the latest & greatest of such practices, including using Mastodon/ActivityPub as yet another distribution mechanism (ala POSSE) for your existing personal websites rather than a separate profile/stream.
About three weeks ago I got auto-linked hashtags working on my posts.
The biggest challenge was picking a tag space to link my hashtags.
The second biggest challenge was figuring out how to get my linked hashtags to work when my posts were federated into Mastodon instances, and have them rewrite those links into instance-local tag page links. We need a term for such locally rewritten linked hashtags, perhaps “federated hashtags”.
While typical personal sites link a hashtag to a tag page that only displays personal posts, I wanted to link to something more like a tag aggregation page that also displayed similar posts from others.
The tag pages on Mastodon instances do a good job of this, showing tagged posts from any user on that instance, and tagged posts from any user followed by any user on that instance.
I reviewed my hashtags since the start of 2023, checked their pages on indieweb.social and found that the posts displayed were all on topic, and surprisingly free of tag spam (perhaps for now).
I chose https://indieweb.social/tags/ for my tag space (which is a 404 if you click it, where it really should display a tags page listing popular or recent tags or a tag cloud).
The other interesting thing about hashtag links is how they’re rewritten when a post is displayed on another Mastodon instance, to link to the tag page local to that instance.
This linked-hashtag-portability is underspecified unfortunately (it could probably use its own portable markup specification, or at least a best practice for h-entry publishing).
Thus even though I’m using the indieweb.social tag space on the hashtag links in my original post, if you are reading this post on Mastodon, you should see a hashtag like #IndieWeb link to your local instance’s tag page for IndieWeb, and my post should show up on that page.
I did go back and send Webmentions to BridgyFed to send ActivityPub updates for all my past #100DaysofIndieWeb posts, however only a few of them showed up in those tag pages. It’s unclear why a few did and most didn’t, or why there are inconsistencies across instances. More to explore and debug.
Federated hashtags definitely need their own specification, because currently they barely interoperate when published, and even then require Mastodon-implementation-specific knowledge to function.
The good news is that several of us now have linked hashtags on our personal sites display and link as expected when our posts are federated across Mastodon instances, using a variety of different pieces of software to make it all work.
If someone in chat issues a !archive command on an event or Etherpad URL (per
issue 4),
and it has already been archived (the destination wiki URL already exists), the bot should return with a warning that the event has already been archived, and provide the full wiki URL for the chat user to inspect, and manually make any improvements if necessary.
Requested originally in IndieWeb meta chat, earlier today.
Watching #MozFest session Dialogues & Debates: Making the Fediverse¹ and panelist @stevetex@mozilla.social (@stevetex) just announced that we (#Mozilla) are standing up a #Mastodon instance², starting with limited sign-ups.
I’m excited that Mozilla is experimenting with #socialWeb alternatives to centralized #socialMedia silos.
Several of these folks also have their own #IndieWeb sites.
It’s interesting seeing how people are individually choosing to use a fediverse address on someone else’s server, vs their own server like with a subdomain, vs just using their existing site.
One trend I have seen is people using someone else’s Mastodon server as a stepping stone, a learning experience, before migrating to either self-hosting Mastodon (or an easier to run alternative like microblog.pub³, not to be confused with micro.blog⁴), or ideally directly using their own site, blog etc. to connect to the fediverse⁵.
Do you have an @-@ address and want to use your own site instead?
If you’re a #webdev, you can totally do this by connecting your existing personal site with https://fed.brid.gy/ and own your presence on the web, social web, fediverse all at one place.
https://github.com/olfekhttps://github.com/cavac neither of your comments provided any new technical information on this specification and are out of scope for this repo. If you want to vent, please use your own blog to do so.
All of the comments made on this issue in this year were out of scope, and none of them provided any new technical information about the specification so I am locking this issue accordingly.
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